<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: A Dime-Store Apocalypse</title>
	<atom:link href="http://dogtownessays.com/wordpress/2010/01/06/a-dime-store-apocalypse/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://dogtownessays.com/wordpress/2010/01/06/a-dime-store-apocalypse/</link>
	<description>Dogtown Meditations</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 28 Apr 2010 22:54:40 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Casual Observer</title>
		<link>http://dogtownessays.com/wordpress/2010/01/06/a-dime-store-apocalypse/comment-page-1/#comment-925</link>
		<dc:creator>Casual Observer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jan 2010 23:05:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dogtownessays.com/wordpress/?p=1760#comment-925</guid>
		<description>I think the fringes are always with us, WT.  

* Disruptive technologies being built in suburban garages...
* Teabaggers...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the fringes are always with us, WT.  </p>
<p>* Disruptive technologies being built in suburban garages&#8230;<br />
* Teabaggers&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: William Timberman</title>
		<link>http://dogtownessays.com/wordpress/2010/01/06/a-dime-store-apocalypse/comment-page-1/#comment-924</link>
		<dc:creator>William Timberman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jan 2010 16:27:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dogtownessays.com/wordpress/?p=1760#comment-924</guid>
		<description>Yes. This is the fulcrum of most of my thinking, that in our own age the institutional  imperative to control events can, and usually does, overwhelm the impulse for local adaptation. Only temporarily, perhaps, but when we say temporarily, we&#039;re taking the long view. In the short term, the resistance of our current political leadership to that-which-must-be-done may well be serious enough to destroy the very forms which are the source of their power, and not coincidentally, a lot of us as well.

Your point is a good one, but my own view is that change, or adaption, was geographically-based only very early on in human history. In the centuries since desert religions arose, we&#039;ve seen other metaphors for what I think of as the control-adaptation dialectic. Think democracy-aristocracy, or working class-oligarchy, or science-revealed religion.

The key to our dilemma, it seems to me, is to find a way to incorporate chaos into our control systems. On the level of individual psychology, this means finding a way to encourage the ego to be less paranoid, more able to define itself in fluid terms. On the level of politics, it means finding our way toward what SDS once called &lt;i&gt;participatory democracy.&lt;/i&gt;

It&#039;s always seemed to me that living in a Heraclitean universe, which our previous successes at adaptation, and the technologies which they&#039;ve engendered, have forced upon us whether we will or no, obliges us to reconsider much of what we think we know about stability in human society. The real question, though, is this: &lt;i&gt;Do we have the time to reconsider?&lt;/i&gt;

I don&#039;t know the answer. I fear the worst, but I also know that no matter how dark the answer proves to be, we nevertheless have to ask the question. If you hang around Dogtown long enough, I promise that I&#039;ll ask it in places which our current political leadership has already written off. More than that, I can&#039;t promise you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes. This is the fulcrum of most of my thinking, that in our own age the institutional  imperative to control events can, and usually does, overwhelm the impulse for local adaptation. Only temporarily, perhaps, but when we say temporarily, we&#8217;re taking the long view. In the short term, the resistance of our current political leadership to that-which-must-be-done may well be serious enough to destroy the very forms which are the source of their power, and not coincidentally, a lot of us as well.</p>
<p>Your point is a good one, but my own view is that change, or adaption, was geographically-based only very early on in human history. In the centuries since desert religions arose, we&#8217;ve seen other metaphors for what I think of as the control-adaptation dialectic. Think democracy-aristocracy, or working class-oligarchy, or science-revealed religion.</p>
<p>The key to our dilemma, it seems to me, is to find a way to incorporate chaos into our control systems. On the level of individual psychology, this means finding a way to encourage the ego to be less paranoid, more able to define itself in fluid terms. On the level of politics, it means finding our way toward what SDS once called <i>participatory democracy.</i></p>
<p>It&#8217;s always seemed to me that living in a Heraclitean universe, which our previous successes at adaptation, and the technologies which they&#8217;ve engendered, have forced upon us whether we will or no, obliges us to reconsider much of what we think we know about stability in human society. The real question, though, is this: <i>Do we have the time to reconsider?</i></p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know the answer. I fear the worst, but I also know that no matter how dark the answer proves to be, we nevertheless have to ask the question. If you hang around Dogtown long enough, I promise that I&#8217;ll ask it in places which our current political leadership has already written off. More than that, I can&#8217;t promise you.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Casual Observer</title>
		<link>http://dogtownessays.com/wordpress/2010/01/06/a-dime-store-apocalypse/comment-page-1/#comment-923</link>
		<dc:creator>Casual Observer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Jan 2010 16:00:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dogtownessays.com/wordpress/?p=1760#comment-923</guid>
		<description>Malthus wasn&#039;t wrong, but he has been improved-on somewhat when it comes to realistically modeling what humans are.  I think Malthus assumed that human foodstocks would increase only in linear fashion, whereas pop. growth would be geometric. He also, I believe, failed to see the causative relationship between population growth and technological change.

We now think we understand that humans are unique among all critters because we, in response to the pressures Malthus defined, are able to geometrically increase food supply.  The agricultural revolution being the textbook example.  The greater the malthusian pressure, the greater the pressures/incentives become for technological change.

Interestingly (at least to me), when we look at the invention of agriculture in the middle east many millenia ago (it was also invented in at least 3 other global regions, independently), it appears to have been born at the fringes, by those in the most trouble, rather than at the big centers, where the religious and managerial elites would have been.  

There may be some generally-held bullshit generalization (aka scientific consensus) that human technological and social change generally works this way--beginning at the margins, and then marching inwards to the &quot;center&quot;, driven by necessity.  An example in the social realm might be the fact that three of our major world religions &quot;were born in the desert&quot;. 
 
So we have thousands of years of change coming from the fringes and margins, struggling against the stability that dwells in the center.  And any elite centrists who argue that Malthus was all wrong (as they eat their morning cereal, or pancakes, or corn grits), are now living in a world completely rocked and re-created by those exact pressures that Malthus defined.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Malthus wasn&#8217;t wrong, but he has been improved-on somewhat when it comes to realistically modeling what humans are.  I think Malthus assumed that human foodstocks would increase only in linear fashion, whereas pop. growth would be geometric. He also, I believe, failed to see the causative relationship between population growth and technological change.</p>
<p>We now think we understand that humans are unique among all critters because we, in response to the pressures Malthus defined, are able to geometrically increase food supply.  The agricultural revolution being the textbook example.  The greater the malthusian pressure, the greater the pressures/incentives become for technological change.</p>
<p>Interestingly (at least to me), when we look at the invention of agriculture in the middle east many millenia ago (it was also invented in at least 3 other global regions, independently), it appears to have been born at the fringes, by those in the most trouble, rather than at the big centers, where the religious and managerial elites would have been.  </p>
<p>There may be some generally-held bullshit generalization (aka scientific consensus) that human technological and social change generally works this way&#8211;beginning at the margins, and then marching inwards to the &#8220;center&#8221;, driven by necessity.  An example in the social realm might be the fact that three of our major world religions &#8220;were born in the desert&#8221;. </p>
<p>So we have thousands of years of change coming from the fringes and margins, struggling against the stability that dwells in the center.  And any elite centrists who argue that Malthus was all wrong (as they eat their morning cereal, or pancakes, or corn grits), are now living in a world completely rocked and re-created by those exact pressures that Malthus defined.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: bystander</title>
		<link>http://dogtownessays.com/wordpress/2010/01/06/a-dime-store-apocalypse/comment-page-1/#comment-921</link>
		<dc:creator>bystander</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jan 2010 18:21:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dogtownessays.com/wordpress/?p=1760#comment-921</guid>
		<description>Speaking of Woolworths...

via &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.boingboing.net/2010/01/08/five-and-dime-of-the.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;BoingBoing&lt;/a&gt;

&lt;a href=&quot;http://timesonline.typepad.com/science/2010/01/aliens-with-a-taste-for-pick-n-mix-woolworths-stores-follow-uncanny-geometrical-patterns.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Woolworths stores follow uncanny geometrical patterns&lt;/a&gt;

My grandmother was a hoot.  Long after she should have given up driving - and, she was never good to begin with - she had an accident in an intersection right in front of the big old Roman Catholic church, which was her destination.  &lt;i&gt;Somehow&lt;/i&gt;, in giving her report to the nice policeman, she got her super-sized handbag entangled with the cop&#039;s arm.  In getting untangled, &lt;i&gt;he&lt;/i&gt; wound up with her handbag, and &lt;i&gt;she&lt;/i&gt; wound up with his gun!

As an immigrant who came though Ellis Island - an orphan born somewhere near Rome, Italy - she was one of those ubiquitous, small statured, tightly corseted, elderly European women who dressed in dark dresses, sturdy shoes, and had her hair coiled in a U-shaped bun at the nape of her neck.  She was barely able to write in English, but she diligently answered every letter I sent her my Freshman year in college.  Phonics was never so useful as when it came time to decipher her letters. And, she &lt;b&gt;loved&lt;/b&gt; Woolworths.  Getting to Woolworths with her, however, was always an adventure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking of Woolworths&#8230;</p>
<p>via <a href="http://www.boingboing.net/2010/01/08/five-and-dime-of-the.html" rel="nofollow">BoingBoing</a></p>
<p><a href="http://timesonline.typepad.com/science/2010/01/aliens-with-a-taste-for-pick-n-mix-woolworths-stores-follow-uncanny-geometrical-patterns.html" rel="nofollow">Woolworths stores follow uncanny geometrical patterns</a></p>
<p>My grandmother was a hoot.  Long after she should have given up driving &#8211; and, she was never good to begin with &#8211; she had an accident in an intersection right in front of the big old Roman Catholic church, which was her destination.  <i>Somehow</i>, in giving her report to the nice policeman, she got her super-sized handbag entangled with the cop&#8217;s arm.  In getting untangled, <i>he</i> wound up with her handbag, and <i>she</i> wound up with his gun!</p>
<p>As an immigrant who came though Ellis Island &#8211; an orphan born somewhere near Rome, Italy &#8211; she was one of those ubiquitous, small statured, tightly corseted, elderly European women who dressed in dark dresses, sturdy shoes, and had her hair coiled in a U-shaped bun at the nape of her neck.  She was barely able to write in English, but she diligently answered every letter I sent her my Freshman year in college.  Phonics was never so useful as when it came time to decipher her letters. And, she <b>loved</b> Woolworths.  Getting to Woolworths with her, however, was always an adventure.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: KarenM</title>
		<link>http://dogtownessays.com/wordpress/2010/01/06/a-dime-store-apocalypse/comment-page-1/#comment-919</link>
		<dc:creator>KarenM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jan 2010 16:13:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dogtownessays.com/wordpress/?p=1760#comment-919</guid>
		<description>Hey, William! I don&#039;t have the same Woolworth memories with my grandmother. Mine were on my own, but she did take us on outings that I still remember fondly.

There was also a sundries/drug store in the (once) sleepy village where she and my grandfather used to live. One of my friends from high school and I used to stop in there for hot fudge sundaes some times, best sundaes I ever had anywhere. If that store is still there, I doubt it has the same ambiance it did then. 

What resonated most with me, though, about this post was your comment about being old enough to recognize that the Pax Americana we grew up in may not have been what we thought it was. When I was a child I used to wonder how/why I was lucky enough to be born in the U.S. Now, I wonder the opposite. I suspect that what has changed the most is just my own perspective.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, William! I don&#8217;t have the same Woolworth memories with my grandmother. Mine were on my own, but she did take us on outings that I still remember fondly.</p>
<p>There was also a sundries/drug store in the (once) sleepy village where she and my grandfather used to live. One of my friends from high school and I used to stop in there for hot fudge sundaes some times, best sundaes I ever had anywhere. If that store is still there, I doubt it has the same ambiance it did then. </p>
<p>What resonated most with me, though, about this post was your comment about being old enough to recognize that the Pax Americana we grew up in may not have been what we thought it was. When I was a child I used to wonder how/why I was lucky enough to be born in the U.S. Now, I wonder the opposite. I suspect that what has changed the most is just my own perspective.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: William Timberman</title>
		<link>http://dogtownessays.com/wordpress/2010/01/06/a-dime-store-apocalypse/comment-page-1/#comment-918</link>
		<dc:creator>William Timberman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jan 2010 15:58:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dogtownessays.com/wordpress/?p=1760#comment-918</guid>
		<description>The same to you and your family, Pedinska. We all have our list of things that aren&#039;t there any more, I guess. One of my friends was the official oral historian at our library, and I used to help him edit transcripts. Fascinating stuff. Studs Terkel and even Charles Kuralt had some idea of just how rich the world is, but most people don&#039;t even think of generalizing on their own experiences, or comparing the things they&#039;ve experienced with the pap we&#039;re fed on TV. God knows what would happen if they did. &lt;i&gt;Epiphany&lt;/i&gt; is probably a pretty tame description of what would happen next.

Come to think of it, the feeling of being trapped in their own impoverished reflections might explain some of the rage of the teabaggers. (Whatever you do, don&#039;t tell Sarah Palin.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The same to you and your family, Pedinska. We all have our list of things that aren&#8217;t there any more, I guess. One of my friends was the official oral historian at our library, and I used to help him edit transcripts. Fascinating stuff. Studs Terkel and even Charles Kuralt had some idea of just how rich the world is, but most people don&#8217;t even think of generalizing on their own experiences, or comparing the things they&#8217;ve experienced with the pap we&#8217;re fed on TV. God knows what would happen if they did. <i>Epiphany</i> is probably a pretty tame description of what would happen next.</p>
<p>Come to think of it, the feeling of being trapped in their own impoverished reflections might explain some of the rage of the teabaggers. (Whatever you do, don&#8217;t tell Sarah Palin.)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: William Timberman</title>
		<link>http://dogtownessays.com/wordpress/2010/01/06/a-dime-store-apocalypse/comment-page-1/#comment-917</link>
		<dc:creator>William Timberman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jan 2010 15:28:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dogtownessays.com/wordpress/?p=1760#comment-917</guid>
		<description>Thanks, RMP. Yeah, we&#039;ve left the kids a mixed legacy. What haunts me, of course, and many other commenters of our generation, even those far more accomplished and far higher up the food chain than either of us, is that genuine apocalypses &lt;i&gt;do&lt;/i&gt; happen. The fact that we haven&#039;t known any of the people who&#039;ve suffered them, except for the occasional ancient with a tattooed forearm, or a friend who was never quite right after Viet Nam, is small comfort.

We have a lot to be proud of, but none of it is enough to engender a sense of complacency when we look at just how &lt;i&gt;stuck&lt;/i&gt; our leaders are. The smartest of them have outsmarted only themselves, and are now trapped in the dysfunctional system which they themselves have created, as much so as we are.

The force necessary to break the logjam in Washington will have to come from outside the city, and from minds that haven&#039;t been acclimated to the insanity inside the Beltway, of that much I&#039;m sure. What it will look like I have no idea, nor do I know how long we&#039;ve got before it arrives. It&#039;s hard not to fear the worst, though, when you realize that none of the people who should be leading the search for solutions have any clue about the peril they&#039;ve put us all in.

&lt;i&gt;That&#039;s&lt;/i&gt; why I want to go have a look for myself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, RMP. Yeah, we&#8217;ve left the kids a mixed legacy. What haunts me, of course, and many other commenters of our generation, even those far more accomplished and far higher up the food chain than either of us, is that genuine apocalypses <i>do</i> happen. The fact that we haven&#8217;t known any of the people who&#8217;ve suffered them, except for the occasional ancient with a tattooed forearm, or a friend who was never quite right after Viet Nam, is small comfort.</p>
<p>We have a lot to be proud of, but none of it is enough to engender a sense of complacency when we look at just how <i>stuck</i> our leaders are. The smartest of them have outsmarted only themselves, and are now trapped in the dysfunctional system which they themselves have created, as much so as we are.</p>
<p>The force necessary to break the logjam in Washington will have to come from outside the city, and from minds that haven&#8217;t been acclimated to the insanity inside the Beltway, of that much I&#8217;m sure. What it will look like I have no idea, nor do I know how long we&#8217;ve got before it arrives. It&#8217;s hard not to fear the worst, though, when you realize that none of the people who should be leading the search for solutions have any clue about the peril they&#8217;ve put us all in.</p>
<p><i>That&#8217;s</i> why I want to go have a look for myself.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Pedinska</title>
		<link>http://dogtownessays.com/wordpress/2010/01/06/a-dime-store-apocalypse/comment-page-1/#comment-916</link>
		<dc:creator>Pedinska</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jan 2010 15:28:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dogtownessays.com/wordpress/?p=1760#comment-916</guid>
		<description>My grandmother worked in a local department store, similar to Woolworths called Reeds. She worked in what was then called &#039;Foundations&#039;, selling those lovely contraptions that all women thought necessary for presenting their physical selves in the best possible light, bras and girdles. I often spent time with her there amidst the sea of white cones, straps and stretchy panels.

She&#039;s 97 now and, at times, even the sight and feel of my still-long hair, hair she used to brush endlessly, isn&#039;t enough to allow her to recognize me. But I often think back on those times and wonder what she would have to say if she were able to visit Victoria&#039;s Secret. I&#039;m just guessing, but I think it would be curt, pungently acerbic and very, very funny.

Thanks for sharing that memory, WT, and for triggering memories that I haven&#039;t had for far too long.

Happy New Year to you and yours!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My grandmother worked in a local department store, similar to Woolworths called Reeds. She worked in what was then called &#8216;Foundations&#8217;, selling those lovely contraptions that all women thought necessary for presenting their physical selves in the best possible light, bras and girdles. I often spent time with her there amidst the sea of white cones, straps and stretchy panels.</p>
<p>She&#8217;s 97 now and, at times, even the sight and feel of my still-long hair, hair she used to brush endlessly, isn&#8217;t enough to allow her to recognize me. But I often think back on those times and wonder what she would have to say if she were able to visit Victoria&#8217;s Secret. I&#8217;m just guessing, but I think it would be curt, pungently acerbic and very, very funny.</p>
<p>Thanks for sharing that memory, WT, and for triggering memories that I haven&#8217;t had for far too long.</p>
<p>Happy New Year to you and yours!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: RMP</title>
		<link>http://dogtownessays.com/wordpress/2010/01/06/a-dime-store-apocalypse/comment-page-1/#comment-915</link>
		<dc:creator>RMP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jan 2010 04:13:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dogtownessays.com/wordpress/?p=1760#comment-915</guid>
		<description>Wonderful post. Having spent a lot of time with youth in the inner-city of Chicago and after that my grand children, I do have faith that they will do a better job than we mature types have done. We are leaving them an incredible challenge. They have far better technological tools than we had. They medically can live a far longer time. The increasing population and diminishing resources not too mention wars, floods and droughts can only be handled if the world learns to work together. There isn&#039;t much chance for that to happen, but it is possible. You&#039;re absolutely right that the unknowns that we can&#039;t presently conceive of will be the real deal breakers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wonderful post. Having spent a lot of time with youth in the inner-city of Chicago and after that my grand children, I do have faith that they will do a better job than we mature types have done. We are leaving them an incredible challenge. They have far better technological tools than we had. They medically can live a far longer time. The increasing population and diminishing resources not too mention wars, floods and droughts can only be handled if the world learns to work together. There isn&#8217;t much chance for that to happen, but it is possible. You&#8217;re absolutely right that the unknowns that we can&#8217;t presently conceive of will be the real deal breakers.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: cocktailhag</title>
		<link>http://dogtownessays.com/wordpress/2010/01/06/a-dime-store-apocalypse/comment-page-1/#comment-914</link>
		<dc:creator>cocktailhag</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jan 2010 03:55:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dogtownessays.com/wordpress/?p=1760#comment-914</guid>
		<description>My grandmother, Etta, took me to Woolworth&#039;s too, and when I was old enough to go on my own, I liked it even better, because Etta was too congenitally cheap to let me buy anything, even if I had my own money.    The butter toffee peanuts or KarmelKorn were better elsewhere, but Woolworth&#039;s was the place for Swedish Fish, and there were always little tchotchkes I could afford.  It&#039;s now a Dollar Store, and I imagine it stocks the modern equivalents of the things Woolworth&#039;s sold, but I&#039;ve never walked in, because it would be too sad.  I&#039;m certain that the lunch counter and the pet department, my favorites, are long gone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My grandmother, Etta, took me to Woolworth&#8217;s too, and when I was old enough to go on my own, I liked it even better, because Etta was too congenitally cheap to let me buy anything, even if I had my own money.    The butter toffee peanuts or KarmelKorn were better elsewhere, but Woolworth&#8217;s was the place for Swedish Fish, and there were always little tchotchkes I could afford.  It&#8217;s now a Dollar Store, and I imagine it stocks the modern equivalents of the things Woolworth&#8217;s sold, but I&#8217;ve never walked in, because it would be too sad.  I&#8217;m certain that the lunch counter and the pet department, my favorites, are long gone.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
